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  Topic: capoeira or breakdance?
  2006-07-14 21:28:08
hi, i was wondering how much influence capoeira has on the breakdance scene. it appears to me that a lot of moves in cappoweira are used[or ripped off] in breakdancing.whats your think?
  2006-07-15 00:37:24
Breaking has it's own roots and histories however there are a number of trademark breaking moves that come directly from capoeira as there are many capoeira moves that have been taken directly from other cultural expressions, including olympic gymnastics... it's cultural approprioation and the notion of ripping off though lopens a whole new discussion.
  2006-07-15 01:47:06
hi im scanning thru your forums.in reply to jinx.
im a b girl str8 up and proud. by ripped off do you mean like taking something renaming it and making it yours?
for example,aoraki te maunga-mnt cook???
  2006-07-15 22:56:24
Breakdancing first emerged in NYC in the 80s (notably by the High Times Crew) Coincidentally, many influential Capoeira masters also moved to NYC and established schools in the 80s.
While many moves are similar, most people agree that Capoeira and Breakdance developed independently.. But cross-cultural influence is indubitably possible since they shared the same urban "scene".
  2006-07-17 14:27:04
according to history, Mestre Jelon Vieira started teaching capoeira in New York in 1975.

in regard to May's question - maybe yes? but it's how culture works - maybe one bboy saw a capoeira move, used it, it became a breaking move and now noone remembers where it came from. As Brabo said there's now moves in capoeira in general that have been taken from other disciplines, namely asian martial arts

the cool thing with breakdancing is its so recent you can see how its evolving, it's all recorded. we don't have that for capoeira, it's origins are obscured.

in regard to 'a whole new discussion' of colonialisation or appropriation of peoples land or culture... great! can I ask it back at you May? is it cultural appropriation to be doing hip hop in NZ if its the culture of afro-americans in downtown USA?

I think the only thing stopping it from being appropriation is being aware of your history and knowing where it comes from and why you're doing it

  2006-07-18 09:20:42
I think its kind of redundant to say that breakdancing did or didn't get influenced by capoeira because as far as I can tell, both forms emerged from African peoples in foreign settings.
The root is the same.

axe to all!
  2006-07-20 01:35:23
Both art forms share so much in common, they are both forms of expression with unlimited boundaries.
When I think about this topic a bit deeper, it somehow seems as though Break-dance partly has a wider influnce over capoeira here in New-Zealand.
More and more people are becoming familiar with what capoeira is and that it even exists though, however when people who are unfamiliar with capoeira,they seem to relate it directly to break-dancing when they encounter it rather than the opposite way. (does that make sense?)
  2006-07-20 12:29:03
May - Do you refer tol Japan as Nippon or Japan? Calling Aoraki te Maunga by the english name Mt. Cook is completely different - there is no ownership implied.
  2006-07-20 14:39:35
I always find this topic interesting...

I must say that I'm not, nor have I ever been a B-boy, but I think that people often overestimate the influence of Capoeira on Breaking. I think people see two forms of movement that are inherently acrobatic/gymnastic and combative (with the whole battle scene in hip hop), they see Breaking circles and rodas and they think that one must have influenced the other, and since Capoeira is undoubtedly the older of the two, it seems logical to many people that Capoeira must have been a major influence on Breaking.

However, if you know about the roots of Breaking you can see that though many similarities to capoeira movement have evolved, they evolved independently. In many ways, Kung Fu is bigger influence on Breaking than Capoeira. A lot of Breaking moves come from the old Kung Fu movies that B-boy pioneers like Ken Swift and Crazy Legs of the Rock Steady Crew used to watch. For example, Crazy Legs created windmills based on an old Kung Fu move used to get back to standing after being on your back. The move known in Capoeira as corta capim can be seen in a lot of late seventies and early eighties breaking footage (known as the helicopter), but it also exists in Kung Fu and is far more likely to have been taken from a Kung Fu movie than a capoeirista.

Other Breaking moves that are similar to Capoeira moves were simply conceived by B-boys independently without first seeing the Capoeira equivalent. The Au Giratoria/Piao de Mao is very similar to the 1990 in breaking but it wasn't taken from Capoeira, Crazy Legs invented one time when he tried to do a swipe and went higher than he had intended. Yes it existed in Capoeira first, but it was done by the B-boys without them even knowing that anyone else had done it before; in these instances there are signifcant similarities between Capoeira and Breaking but no direct influence.

I'm not saying that Capoeira has not influenced Breaking at all; I think it has, just not as much as many people think. I think that Luz's point is very valid; rather than one of these styles influencing the other I think the similarities come more from common roots and the fact that both are the product of disenfranchised peoples of the African Diaspora.
  2006-07-21 17:31:16
funny the last 2 times I've been at a paramount party with a bunch of capoeiristas its turned into a breaking circle. that's how you busted your ass that time isn't it Ziggy? hehe

Don't know the history of hiphop well enough to comment about that. I'd like to go back to the other thread of this thread and refine the definitions of colonisation and appropriation - colonisation being the taking over of someone's culture/land/resources with your own. And appropriation being the taking from another's culture/tradition and using it in your own. I think appropriation can be OK, as said before its how cultures evolve naturally. It can be negative when you take someone's work without giving recognition - like taping a mestre's class on your trip to Salvador without their permission and then putting it on myspace etc.

in reply to Digital, you know that naming things is a powerful way to colonise a place - renaming the tallest mountain in NZ with a European explorer at the same time as punishing kids for speaking Maori is a perfect example of cultural colonialism. I didn't know the Maori name for Mt Cook. Japan was never colonised by a foriegn nation.

where's May gone anyway?
  2006-07-21 17:38:04
My point exactly Tucano, if I was B-boy I wouldn't have broken my ass.
  2006-07-25 17:19:35
Tucano - What I was trying to get across was that just because something is referenced by a different name in a different language doesn't necessarily mean anyone is being opressed or that anything has been stolen.

Type either Mt Cook or Aoraki into google and see what comes up, you should notice the lack of sensorship.
  2006-07-26 17:38:55
Yes, not necessarily. But I'm suggesting that it can imply ownership, and it has - yes we're all much more culturally sensitive these days but it hasn't always been so. According to Wikipedia (of all sources!) the 'Aoraki' has only been part of its official name since 1998, as part of Ngai Tahu's settlement with the government.
Colonisation was a reality for this country and we're still dealing with it, some would say it's still here. And language was one means along the way of achieving it.

Is this something you disagree with?
  2006-07-27 10:41:37
Growing up in San Francisco during the breakdancing days, I remember people borrowing break moves off of everything. Guys would turn up with some new trick they learned off someone else at another break session, or even something they'd "flaired" on their own.

A lot of times we would get someone come back from a dance class or martial arts class and they would add it in to their routine. Someone else would watch them, and in the spirit of improvisation (a trait common to both capoeira and breaking), they would attempt to imitate the move someone had just done and then add their own style to it.

In the same way that we hear of capoeira being a unique art form to brazil, not specifically from Africa and not specifically of the native Brazilians, but a mixing of many kinds of ideas / moves into a new form, we can also say this about break dancing and hip-hop. These forms grew out of their own blending of other traditions to create a new one.
  2006-07-30 00:06:18
hey digital!, tucano! how does your last comments have anything remotly 2 do with the topic about influences on breaking\ capoeira, thats like saying "lani gets 100 buck a week yay!" lets stay on topic shall we. tiene cabeza gorda!
  2006-07-30 18:17:38
Acronyms - 100 Geek Points:

  2006-07-30 20:52:01
acronyms Yeahhhhh!!!!!!!!!

  2006-07-30 20:52:44
geek points?
  2006-07-31 14:22:48
breaking and capoeira! yeha!
what ive learnt about breaking is that is up to the artists with in the crews to develop the moves. you and your crew creating the edge to keep you ontop of the game forever evolving. Art is about taking what you got, seen, like and showing it off you way, simplely.
I've picked up alot of the breaking !power! moves eazy in learning b-girl slyles, cause of my capoeira background, but it isnt capoeira...and whos to say we play !capoeira! isnt it contempory? Dance ha ha ha
whos gona fight the bull!

  2007-04-18 11:51:28
im back and its been a bit of siffting thru the channels to find this thread.im happy to hear the points of views of everyone here especially tucano,you dont go and rename something that already has a name and held so sacred.that is not cool digital.

what do i call Japan...Japan!!!

What do i call a dog...dog!
  2007-04-18 14:49:08
throws a rabo de arria then goes to a negacheva and waits...
  2007-04-18 18:16:44
Being a capoeiresta. i myself thought capoeira had major influences on breaking. Well can you blame me?, both are performed or played with people around, both are done to music, both can have challenges and playful little teases. but just writing down the similarities , i can see how worlds apart they are. reading through this, shows me how much i don't know about breaking.it has been eye opening, very interesting . When capoeiresta's play they refer to the event as 'having a roda', what do breakers refer to their events as?
  b-boy flop
  2007-04-18 20:33:17
yo me thinks it'z calld a battle. lol :-)
  2007-04-19 19:24:53
oh yeah!!! a battle. thats it. i forgot. dahh!!!! lol
  2007-04-20 13:58:14
hi May, welcome back

as a b-girl what do you think about the question about hip hop culture in NZ - how do you make it relevant to this country, not just an imitation of another people's culture?
  2007-04-21 10:49:46
KiA Ora
Just thought I'd add my 5c while Im here.
I B.Boy aswell as other styles like Krump, Pop, and Lock. I also studied Capoeira and did classes with Brabo Grant (congrats on being the first Master in NZ - I heard the good news) Im still learning.
alot of dance styles have influenced others but the bottom line is the root of the dance - thats where the identity is. Capoeira and Breaking are different in that sence. Stay close to the roots if you want to identify a dance form cos the branches are always open to influence but the roots stay the same always. That comes from knowing where each dance style began and why. not just what influences it.
That will also define whos imitating and whos a student of each artform.
  2007-04-23 17:49:29
....answers Andarilho's rabo de arria and Negativa with Meia lua de compasso, Negativa andgola into a headstand, and waits....
  2007-04-26 11:42:21
wow tucano you deep man! gee i hope you got that one May .
  2007-06-20 21:59:42
  2007-06-20 23:38:40
[hhhmmmmmm] Pe Liso...
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